Episode 131: Live interview with Josh Steimle

John: I’d like to welcome our guest today Josh Steimle. He is an author, speaker, entrepreneur and creator of the 7 systems of influence framework. The 7 systems of influence is used by parents, educators and business and community community leaders to build influence and create impact Josh is also a TedX speaker and has written over 300 articles for publications like Forbes, Mashable, Time and many more thanks for joining us today Josh.

Josh: Thank you so much John for having me on.

John: Well I know you’re busy so we’ll get right into it. So tell some of the listeners a little bit about yourself and what do people know you by.

Josh: Well let’s see, a little bit about myself I grew up in Los Angeles I got married I had some kids lived in China and Hong Kong for about six years and along the way I started a marketing agency called MWI about 20 years ago 1999 and as I was running MWI which had a lot of ups and downs a lot of failure more failure than the success during the first 13 years or so, but as I was running this I got the opportunity to write for Forbes magazine it just dropped in my lap I had a friend who was writing there and she hooked me up and so I started writing for Forbes magazine and that opened a bunch of doors for me, it opened doors to write for other publications, it got me a book deal, it got me on a TEDx stage and got me on into speaking gigs and all sorts of crazy things happened. I was invited to hang out with Richard Branson on his island for a week so all these crazy things started happening and I started asking myself how did I get here? How did this happen? I’m just a normal guy who likes to write stuff and suddenly I’m sitting on this island or I’m on this stage and I’m just thinking, how does this all work and so that got me interested in studying influence and personal branding and thought leadership and so that’s what I’ve been researching for the past few years is how this all works and how people can build a personal brand, increase their influence and use that influence to do good things and make the world a better place.

John: That’s amazing, so let’s backtrack a little bit so how-where did you go to school and kind of how did you start your business or what kind of business do you run currently.

Josh: So I went to school starting out in Idaho at Brigham Young University Idaho and then I went transferred down to BYU Provo after my first two years, I also got educated in Brazil I was a missionary for my church I went down there and lived for two years in Brazil or in Portuguese and that was super educational experience and it but really my entrepreneurial roots go back to when I was a kid I grew up I was always making money doing something or losing money but I was always trying to make money and I did recycling and I sold stuff door-to-door I mowed lawns and I washed cars, I was just always trying to do something and my family was kind of creative my mother was artistic, she was a schoolteacher but she also had this artistic side and my father was an engineer but he had this entrepreneurial side where he was inventing things and selling them and I grew up in this family where it was you could just kind of do whatever you wanted to do and that was supported and reinforced and so when I was a kid I was a skateboarder and I wanted to start a skateboard business, so I started a little skate shop and sold skateboard stuff and my dad helped me out with that and then when I went to college and I learned that you could study entrepreneurship that’s what really got me excited. I started out as an art major but once I learned about entrepreneurship I didn’t realize you could study that at school I thought people just did that and so once I learned that you could study business in school I thought well this is what I’m really interested in and so I went into business and then this was in the mid 90s as the Internet was rolling out and they had introduced this new degree at my school called information systems management I thought okay business tech I need these things and so that’s what I ended up studying at school but before I graduated I couldn’t wait and I had already started a business and so the day I graduated from school I already had 10 employees and I was working, I was running a business and that’s still the agency that I have today 20 years later.

John: Oh wow that’s amazing! So I know you’ve probably had a lot of ups and downs over the years, but were there people that kind of pushed you to become an entrepreneur or was it more your willpower, your dream growing up or people that you looked up to?

Josh: Nobody pushed me, if anything I had people trying to drag me back from jumping off that cliff and entrepreneurship. My last real job, my last full-time job I was working for a company that eventually became Omniture which got bought out by Adobe for 1.8 billion and I turned down I was turning down stock options leaving that company to go start my own web design shop and one of the cofounders of the business who had taken me under his wing, sat down with me and he said don’t do this, do not start your own business you’re gonna hate it, you’re gonna hate clients, you’re gonna hate waking up at all hours of the night to do stuff like just stay here we’ll give you stock options it’ll be great, I was just like no not gonna do it, I’m leaving, I’m out of here and I left and started my business. I just couldn’t resist that call to go do something else I just, I didn’t feel like I was cut out for anything but running my own business.

John: Know, that’s amazing so the pursuit of just having that dream I guess and the inner desire to do something different or being your own boss or whatever it may be, that’s what entrepreneurs are all about like you know people cannot dictate what they are capable of doing right so that’s all

Josh: Yeah I came across a quote the other day that I really liked, it was actually about skateboarders it was that “ A real skateboarder is not somebody who keeps on skating, it’s somebody who can’t stop skating. ” and I think that it goes for Entrepreneurship as well, that just because you start a business that doesn’t necessarily make you an entrepreneur, it’s the people who can’t stop starting businesses those are the kind of entrepreneurs that I really relate to because I just I can’t resist it’s just over the years people have come and they’re like why don’t you and especially when the business was not doing well people would come and say why don’t you just get a normal job work a nine-to-five it’s easy go home, you don’t have to take your work with you, don’t have to work weekends, you won’t go into all this debt like you’re doing, let’s just like can’t do it, it’s not worth it I would die I would just be so unhappy, you know working a normal job I just I can’t do it and yeah I mean I have friends who have made a lot more money than I have doing the normal nine-to-five thing but I love what I’m doing.
John: Yeah so following your passion and purpose definitely that’s much more life for sure. So over the years did you have any mentors or coaches that kind of push you or was this all in yourself, like self-taught.
Josh: I mean I’ve reached out for help to a lot of people and there are a lot of people who have given me advice and helped me along the way and but there was nobody who was ever really pushing me like who, I mean actually I did have one, Jerry Nelson was a successful retired entrepreneur who was kind of a coach at BYU and I was going to school there and he was great, he was just a cheerleader he would just come in and just say, you guys are doing great, you’re awesome and he gave me lots of good advice some of which I followed, some of which I regrettably did not follow and it would have saved me a lot of pain if I had listened to him but I mean he was always a great cheerleader of mine, there are lots of other people who helped along the way but again it was really just there was this drive inside of me and that’s what really pushed me and kept me going.

John: So what made you continue, like obviously you’ve been doing it for twenty plus years now right? there were some ups and downs and you know probably more downs and ups running a business. What kind of challenges did you have to face and tell some of the listeners about some of them.

Josh: The thing that kept me going was that it always seemed like success was just around the corner. So every month, I mean you know how this is you’re running a service business too and so I’m running a service business where we were designing websites and then we got in and we did SEO and we did paid search and we’ve done social media. We’ve done all these different services and when you’re doing a service it’s tough because you only get paid when you’re doing work, it’s not like a software or SAS business or product business where you build it once and then you sell it 20 million times it’s we’re building stuff that’s custom every month and once we build it then we have to go find somebody else to build another thing for, at least with SEO and stuff you do get their recurring revenue, but still it’s it’s a tough business to provide a service and I always wanted this to be a global agency with a footprint in other countries,that was the dream when I started it and every month for 13 years it was like, oh if we just land this client then that’s gonna be big and that’s the break that we need and that will help us to springboard to this and then this and this will happen and every month that seemed like we were just about there and then it just wouldn’t happen. But we were always making enough to stay in business and stay alive and sometimes we didn’t know how we were going to stay alive because it was like man payrolls coming up in two days and we’re 20 grand short, like how are we going to pay people and then somehow we would get the money in and sometimes we’d be late, I mean this is years in the past but this was really all leading up to about 2007 and then things got better around then but pre 2007 it was just always a struggle, always trying to make it and yet always feeling like we’re so close to this huge success.
John: So like obviously for you, you didn’t give up right? Like you never folded or even had that as a thought how did you keep the employee morale up and how did you stay motivated yourself.

Josh: Well part of it was, I really couldn’t turn back I mean I couldn’t afford, I got myself in a lot of debt at the beginning with the business because man when you’ve got a service business and you’re designing websites where it’s 100% project-based you bring in a big project so then you’re like oh everything’s going well so I’m gonna hire a few people, you hire a few people and then the next month you don’t have a project and all of a sudden you’ve got 50 grand in debt because you had to make payroll and you put it on credit cards or you run out and get a loan or your dad loans your money or whatever, but you end up with a bunch of debt and that happened to me a couple of times and I found myself in a half a million dollars of debt really quickly so then it’s like you’re sitting there and your business isn’t going so well. But it’s scraping by and then people are telling you, oh go get a job and it’s like if I go get a normal job I’m gonna pay off this debt for the rest of my life, I will never be out of this debt but if I stay with the business maybe something will happen and then I’ll be able to pay it off a lot faster and so that’s part of what kept me going was just weighing these options, insane I can be unhappy but pay it off consistently but it’s gonna take me 30 40 years to get it paid off or I can be happy maybe something big happens and I can pay it off faster and at least I’m in control, maybe I can do something, maybe I can think of something that will be big and will be successful and make this happen and I always opted for hey I want to be happy and be in control of my life, I just couldn’t imagine doing the nine-to-five and then just feeling like all my money goes into paying off this debt for the next 30-40 years and so that’s that’s part of what kept me going was just feeling like it’s kind of like that story about Cortes or the conquistador who burned his ships so that his men couldn’t sail back to Spain or whatever like that’s what I did, I burned my ships, I really didn’t feel like I had the choice or the option.

John: So was there a moment where things changed and what happened and how did things change for your business, yourself?

Josh: Yeah, 2007 was the low the lowest point in my business but it was also the turning point in the business okay and what happened leading up to 2007 was in 2006 I just I was working 100-hour weeks I was sleeping on the office floor, I didn’t see my family’s missing out on every family event, birthdays, reunions, everything. Saturdays, I mean I’d work Christmas I was doing all sorts of crazy stuff and it just got to the point where I was unhealthy, my wife never saw me and I just felt like you know what, this isn’t working out I’m dying literally dying here, I’m going to kill myself working and what am I doing all this for? I hadn’t been paid in four years, I hadn’t given myself a dime out of the business in four years and I just like what am I doing here like this doesn’t make sense. So I thought well I should like apply to school and go back and get an MBA or something so I applied to get into a Harvard MBA program and I got rejected and I got the letter in January of 2007 and I sat there looking at the rejection letter and it’s just like you know what, there’s no way out of this I’ve got to fix this and I’ve got to get serious about this and that was the turning point for me, to say I’ve got to grow up and I’ve got to make some hard decisions here and I started trying to figure out what I was doing wrong with the business and what I was doing wrong with my whole life. The first thing I did is, I went back to the gym and I started getting fit physically because I was like this is the one thing in my life I can control, I can control my health, I can control what I eat and I can control exercise. Everything else I don’t know what to do with but this is something I know I should be doing.So I started getting healthy and the interesting thing is that once you focus on excellence in one part of your life, it starts it starts to pull up other parts of your life as well and so as I got healthier I couldn’t wallow around in doing other stuff or not doing other stuff that I needed to be doing and so other areas of my life started to get pulled up as well with that part of my life that was improving and within six months, I had made some hard decisions about the business things like, getting rid of office space which was hard for me because that was a hit to my ego to get rid of the office and move everybody into their homes work from home and laying off some people that was a hard decision if you’re an entrepreneur you know it’s like the worst thing in the world to let people go and they’re out of a job and you feel like you’ve let them down but I made these hard decisions to get the business in shape, so that we could start paying off debt and within six months of that Harvard MBA a rejection letter, I was paying off debt, I was making progress and that was the beginning of the turn around for me that’s where I started to feel like okay there’s light at the end of the tunnel, maybe I can actually pay off this debt someday, instead of going into it every month.

John: Wow so going into debt, I mean that’s the biggest dilemma for a lot of businesses and over the years you’ve kind of learned that you don’t need that big office, you don’t need all the employees to work that efficient and people that are listening like, you know if you’re starting off maybe it means bootstrapping versus the ego part of “ I need this office in a prime location. ” You can work from home, make sure that is sustainable and profitable before you start getting office space instead.

Josh: Yeah it’s so nice today that we’ve got all these co workspaces and that that’s an acceptable way to start your business because that didn’t exist when I was starting my business. You either had no office, so you worked at home or you went out and you leased an office. I mean you could sublease an office in the back of somebody else’s office but then it wasn’t a good place to bring clients or meet or I mean you could just put some people together but when you’re running a marketing agency you feel like we’ve got to put on a good show for people, we’ve got to look successful because hey we’re in marketing at least that’s what I thought at the time and so yeah I spent a lot of money, I mean that’s why I didn’t get paid for four years is because my paycheck was going towards paying for an office and all sorts of stuff that looked nice, but then after a few years as I, hey our clients aren’t even coming here anyway,
they don’t even know that we’re in this office like, what am I spending this money on and once I realized I’m spending 60 grand a year just to feed my ego, to say yeah we’ve got a nice office right next to the freeway, once I looked at that clearly I was like well that’s pretty dumb and I got rid of the office right away after that.
John: That’s you know a lot of business owners think they need to spend a ton of money on renovating signage and all this prime location when today’s reality is you can start a business with you know, close to really close to zero investment right like a shared office space you might need a telephone, computer, internet and that’s pretty much it like you don’t need 10-20 thousand dollars as a start-up fund right?

Josh: You know, I mean it’s just yeah, I mean I think most entrepreneurs are smarter than I was but I was really hung up on this image thing and yeah today it’s just it’s so much easier today and it’s so much more accepted these days, it’s just easier to get over that and say everybody else is in a we work or a co workspace so why not?

John: Exactly! You know and with technology nowadays, I mean you can have meetings on zoom, like how we are right now, you can do chats you know on your phone or online. There’s so many different tools and resources for you at your disposal at an affordable price, so there’s no excuse to not try different things and make sure that you are not in the red right?

Josh: Yeah and I understand that people don’t care about anything really except getting the value that they’re paying you for, they don’t care about the office space, they don’t care what kind of car you drive, there all these things that we do to put on a show and all the client or the customer really cares about is, “ Hey I’m paying money for this product or this service and am I getting it and is it good? ” they don’t care about all that other stuff most of them don’t.

John: You know that’s amazing that’s great advice because someone like yourself who’s been in business for twenty years you’ve seen it all and even myself I’ve been in business for six years and I’m still learning. However, I did start home-based and I didn’t have the office. However I was out there andI’ve been in sales and marketing all my life. So I am not afraid to ask for a sale wall and meet clients and you know, just go out and grind it out.

Josh: Yep and now I mean we do have offices again because we have an office in Hong Kong, we have an office in Hawaii and we have an office in Phoenix in Arizona. So we have offices but it’s because we need them and we’ve put those people in co workspaces and then once we outgrow them we’re like, okay we really need a place to put these people and it’s getting really expensive in the cowork space it actually makes more sense to move to an office, then we’re doing it but that’s not the way I did it in the beginning that when I did it in the beginning it was this hole if you build it they will come or if you have a space people will fill it up and so I had empty office space that I was paying for and not utilizing just to put on a show and that’s the stupid way to do it.

John: And that’s great insight because you know if you want to grow your business you can’t grow if you’re spending way more than you’re getting in terms of revenue and you know just for perception and not really generating clients once you take a look at where your clients are coming from, how they even show up at your door or if they do you’ll realize where they actually why they come to you in the first place.

Josh: Yeah so yeah the smarter way to do this is to drive your business by what’s happening and what the clients are demanding rather than what you think they’re going to demand. I mean you could take this a lot of different ways but at least in our business with a service business there’s something to be said for growing with your clients rather than growing ahead of your clients.

John: That’s true, very true so in terms of you know your biggest mistake, it seems like you weren’t a big lot of debt but were was there like people that you had to get rid of, people
like anything that you can really think of that was a big setback for you?

Josh: I mean I was always my a worst enemy in the business it was always my decisions, my bad decisions, things I was doing wrong, things I wasn’t doing right, that’s always been the biggest impediment to the business and one of the big mistakes, you could call it a mistake but one of the things that I did wrong that in retrospect I wish I would have sorted out a lot sooner was that early on in my business I brought on two partners and these partners were good guys but the way that I brought them on, I did it too fast I didn’t know them well enough, I didn’t really know what I needed, I just thought it would be a good idea to have partners and I thought that these guys were bright and so I thought, hey I’ll invite these guys to be partners in my business and I paid a heavy price for that I lost years of time, I lost my business eventually and had to restart over from scratch and it wasn’t because they were dishonest or anything like that, it was just that I got myself into a messy situation the way that I structured this partnership and organized everything and it was a hundred percent my fault and but because of that I got really burned or I felt really burned on partnerships and so from 2003 until 2012-2013 relief for ten years I told myself I’m never having a partner ever again, that was a nightmare, I’m never gonna make that mistake again. I thought the mistake was having partners. What took me ten years to learn was that the problem wasn’t that I brought on partners, the problem was that I brought on partners the wrong way and once I came to the conclusion that you know what I really need a partner again and I brought in another partner then my business took off again, those ten years were just a slog, it was a struggle it was terrible, it was the worst years of my business career but once I brought on a partner in 2013 everything turned around, I mean it already kind of started turning around 2007, but in 2013 that’s when things really took off and a lot of that had to do is bring it on the right partner the right way, at the right time and I spent a year bringing on that partner the first time I brought on a partner it was ten minutes, literally I met the guy and 10 minutes later I offered him 10% of my business.Don’t do it that way, that’s the wrong way. The second time I had this guy working for me for several months before I said hey why don’t you come on full-time and then he came on full-time and then once he proved himself I said hey do you want to take some equity and then we worked it out, but it was a very slow process I knew him very well, that was a much better way to bring on a partner and it’s made all the difference.
John: Yeah and I think as a entrepreneur and business owner I mean, there’s gonna be some things that you have to learn the hard way and I think you did and I am still learning myself and I still make a lot of mistakes but I was fortunate to work at a corporation where I saw what they did well and they didn’t do well and kind of piggyback that. When you kind of start an entrepreneurial journey right after school you don’t really have work experience or knowledge in terms of what’s best practice, what you would do in situations like this and that so I think I’m lucky that way but I’ve also worked 10 or 15 years before starting my business in a lot of corporate environments.

Josh: Yeah this is a question that comes up a lot when I talk to students as they say should I start a business while I’m in school or right after school because that’s what I did, I started it while I was in school I never held any other career and there’s this grass is greener type of thing that can come into this because I don’t know what it’s like to go work a full-time job for another company. I’ve never done that really and so it’s easy for me to sit here and say yeah you should go get some work experience somewhere else. Now somebody else who worked somewhere else might say yeah that’s overrated you should just jump into it. All I know is from my perspective I wish I would have gone and worked for a marketing agency for at least a year or two before starting my own agency just like you said, to see what they do right, to see what they do wrong and not have to reinvent the wheel because I made so many mistakes that I look back on and I think, you know if I had done a job working at another agency this probably would have become obvious that this is the way you do it or this is the way you don’t do it and I could have avoided a lot of pain.

John: Yeah and it’s it’s all timing as well so depending on your situation, if you’re able to start your business right after school sure go for it right but a lot of people are in debt or they are moving out and they want to get married they gotta save, like there’s a lot of life you know lifestyle choices you have to make but yeah I always tell people like have a job, but learn from the job and try to do a business on the side, do a side hustle to see if it can justify yourself and find your passion, true purpose right once you figure that out then you know that you’ll either want to be in business or you’re not but you have a full day you can work eight hours or seven hours and then you can still work four or five hours.

Josh: Yeah on the other hand there is something to be said for just diving in because then you’re really committed to it, I mean you have no other option but to make it work yeah and I mean on the one hand yeah, I have regrets I kind of wish I had done things a different way, on the other hand I never would have learned what I know now if I hadn’t done it the way that I did it and I’m glad for the knowledge that I have, I’m glad that I can talk to other entrepreneurs and say here’s what I did I wouldn’t do it this way. I’m glad that I can do that and so yeah I have her I mean knowing what I know now I would go back and I would do things differently, but I’m still glad for the experiences that I know.

John: That’s amazing, so you mentioned you’re doing a lot of speaking now, you contribute to a lot of these online new sites, so how did you get into that and really is that how you kind of grew in terms of amplifying your business?

Josh: This was another part of it so in 2013 I mentioned that I brought on that partner Cory Blake, he’s the partner that I brought on that was a huge shift and that changed everything, the other thing that happened at the same time was that I got the opportunity to write for Forbes and I actually wrote an article for Fast Company first, that was kind of my first break getting an article into a larger publication but then, I got to write for Forbes as an ongoing contributor so I was writing an article every week I ended up writing 164 articles for Forbes and that was really what opened the doors to everything else. That opened I ended up writing for time and Mashable an entrepreneur and fortune and get it I wrote for over two dozen publications, the revenue that I got from Forbes as a result of the attention that I brought to me and to my agency I can track over five million dollars in revenue back to my writing for Forbes, I mean it was huge and it wasn’t that I was writing articles for Forbes and saying “ Hey look at me I run a marketing agency come hire us.” It was just giving out our secrets, I was giving out tips and saying here’s how we do marketing for our clients, this is how it works, here’s how you can do it yourself knowing that yeah maybe 99% of the people reading that article would read it and say okay I’m gonna go try to do this on my own but there’s that 1% that says we don’t have time to do this on our own, this guy knows what he’s talking about let’s go try to figure out who this guy is and hire him and then they would figure out “Oh he’s got an agency yeah let’s just go hire his agency.” and that 1% was millions in revenue from the behind and that’s what enabled us to get offices open in Asia and Europe and across the US and hire people and grow and turn into more of what my original vision was for the agency.

John: You know that’s amazing I mean that story right there like not giving up being you know persistent and positive and because I’m sure there were sleepless nights or your wife would have probably you know told you like what’s going on with your life like you had to make choices.

Josh: Yeah I mean it’s funny when I was back at BYU as a student I remember we had an entrepreneur come in and talked to one of our classes and he talked about suffering and slaving away for 13 years before his business turned the corner and became successful and I remember sitting there thinking,13 years like that’s insane who would sit around and work for 13 years until it becomes successful and that’s about exactly what happened to me is it took about 13 years before it started to really turn around and become what I thought it could become and now I look back and I’m like yeah 13 years actually goes pretty quick.

John: Yeah I think it’s hard to realize that when you’re a student because you’re only 20 and working life is like 40 years of real working, so 20 years yes you either start doing your own journey
early or later but time flies right especially when you’re having fun too, like it doesn’t feel like work nowadays like what I am running my agency I’m doing what I’m doing I actually love what I’m doing and so it doesn’t really feel like you’re putting in 18-hour days or 15 hour days you know

Josh: yeah and that’s the thing is all the things that my former boss told me about why I would hate running an agency and I’d be up nights and I’d have all these clients and I would trade one boss for 50 bosses every client becomes a boss and on the one hand I understood where he was coming from but on the other hand I still loved it, even when it was the worst day possible when everything was going wrong and I hadn’t been paid in years and I felt like I was letting people down and I had to fire somebody, even on those days I was like “ I like this this is better than anything else I could be doing.” I still loved it even when I was crying about it because I felt like this is me I’m in control, it’s my fault I can’t blame this on anybody else and I’m creating my own destiny here

John: That’s amazing so can you give us some tips because obviously you’ve been doing this for 20 years, any advice you can give these new entrepreneurs thinking of taking this step into starting their own business.

Josh: Yeah I mean my number one tip, when you asked about my biggest mistake this is what I should have said but this is my number one tip is that other things matter more than your business and there are things that are worth giving up your business for which is really hard when you’re an entrepreneur and it’s in your blood because the business feels like it’s everything, but your relationships with family, your spouse, your kids, your parents, siblings, your friends, that matters more than your business. It’s worth giving up your business to preserve those relationships and I’m lucky because my wife didn’t leave me, she stuck with me even when I was working these crazy hours and we didn’t see each other but I got lucky because my wife was very patient and didn’t put her foot down and actually when she put her foot down that was probably the best thing ever because that kind of forced me to be like yeah I need to change things here but those relationships are worth giving up the business for, your health is worth giving up the business for if you die or you become permanently impaired your health is in the toilet, that’s not worth whatever success you’re experiencing from the business and that was a hard lesson for me to learn that I need to eat right, I need to be exercising in that if I go out running or biking or doing whatever for fitness and my business suffers as a result of that, that’s the cost that’s okay this it’s more important for me this is actually my most popular article on entrepreneur magazine was an article about how my fitness is more important to me than my business and the reason why is because I found that when I’m exercising and I’m physically fit I make better business decisions. My business does better when I take care of those things that are most important, it’s the same with family too. When I was working 100-hour weeks I wasn’t 100 hours productive, I wasn’t twice as productive as if I was working 50 hours a week in fact I think I was actually less productive because when I cut back to 30 hours a week which is what I did I went from 100 hours a week to 30 hours a week and when I cut back to 30 hours a week I started making much better decisions, in taking much better care of my time and so I actually saw the business improve by working fewer hours than when I was doing these overnighters all the time.

John: Yeah I’m working smarter, I think the health thing is all about you know critical thinking, having healthy lifestyle really gives you the energy and you know just create of juices in your mind to allow you to even self reflect, when you’re at the gym this is what I do at five o’clock in the morning every day, I go to a gym and I really just reflect and appreciate what I have and a lot of people should spend more time taking care of themselves and spending more time with family as well, so that you know it really drives you on figuring out why you’re doing what you’re doing right, what’s the ultimate reason of being successful, what does success mean in first place? Is it to free up time? Is it ultimately tab money? or gives you the luxury to do things right?

Josh: Yeah cuz at the end of your life there’s that famous saying from Stephen R. Covey who wrote 7 Habits of Highly successful people that nobody looks back when they’re 90 years old and on their deathbed and says I wish I would have spent more time at the office and yeah I mean if you spend your whole life working, you’re gonna look back on them be like “ wow it’s a waste of time, what was that all for? I just made a bunch of money, I created some businesses, Great!

John: Buy stuff

Josh: But you know what? yeah buy stuff, I mean there’s so many wealthy people out there who are sitting in empty houses binging on Netflix and walk, eating takeout dinners because their wife left them and their kids hate them and it’s like, they’re sad and they’re unhappy people that which isn’t to say all rich people are unhappy but there are some of those people out there that they’ve discovered the hard way that money is not everything and meanwhile this was one of the great things I got out of being a missionary in Brazil and really seen hardcore poverty, people let’s our families who had 15 kids and they were living in half of a shack on a dirt floor and they were happy and they had nothing and yet they were a happy family and I saw them and I was like okay and yet took a few years for that lesson to sink in once I became an entrepreneur to realize I’ve got to take care of what’s most important here and it’s still a struggle I mean, I wake up some mornings I’m like I know I need to exercise and yet I start checking email and the next thing I know it’s 10:00 a.m. and I haven’t exercise, I’m still checking email and I’m like “ ahw man!” and there are times where there’s family stuff and there’s business stuff and I’m like I gotta take care of this business thing but I’m supposed to do this family thing, what do I do and it’s the hardest thing in the world sometimes to say I’m not gonna do this business thing I don’t care about the consequences and I’m gonna go spend time with family, it’s really hard because if you did that every time a family thing came up what you’d never do any work, so it’s like “awh man” and there’s yeah I mean that’s life it’s a constant tug of war between good things you can be doing and the best things you can be doing.
John: Exactly but you have choice right so I always tell people that my family comes first and health. I always put it in my calendar and business works around it so my meetings go work around it, everything you know after what is the most important things can still go on but I cannot replace gym, workout or family outings like these are things that are non-negotiable.

Josh: Yep it’s hard it’s hard because you say non-negotiable but then you’re an entrepreneur and stuff becomes negotiable in that moment, that’s when it gets hard is in that moment where you’re like right now it’s tough.

John: It is but I think people will appreciate you as well if you’re able to be letting them know that this is what I booked two weeks ago or a month ago with my family or whatever.

Josh: Yeah I tried I try not to feel guilty about it. I try not to make excuses now, I just put everything in my calendar. So my family is in my calendar too

John: Exactly.

Josh: And if I’ve got a date with one of my kids, then I just tell people oh sorry I can’t do a phone call then I have an appointment.

John: Exactly.

Josh: An appointment with my kid and yeah that’s life.

John: Exactly, you know that’s great so I know you right now technology has kind of enhanced over the years. Software is now becoming way more accessible, how has that changed in terms of your agency, your business because nowadays people can just work from home and perceive to be a lot larger than they are with nice website, do everything with zoom are there tools that you use that some of the audience members can, that you can share with the audience members?

Josh: Zoom is one of my favorites, calendly is another one that’s just one of those scheduling tools where it makes it easy to schedule calls with people I love calendly I think I use that almost every single day with somebody and but it’s funny for all this tech that comes out when people ask me what’s my favorite tool it’s always Gmail, email is just that’s my go-to like that’s how I manage everything and there’s Trello and there’s Basecamp and there’s all these tools out there that I’ve used and really when it comes down to it my main tools are Gmail, Google Calendar and Google Docs and I do all my writing in Google Docs, I manage my old calendar on Google Calendar, I manage all my communication almost on Gmail, Enterprise Gmail, G suite and I have a few other little tools that I use but really it’s just those three simple ones are my mainstays.

John: Know that’s amazing because people get so caught up with the newest and greatest app or newest greatest software. I always tell people what works for you is fine as long as you and everyone that needs to work with you is comfortable with using that tool versus always trying new gadgets and new software and tools because then it becomes training and then some people don’t like adapting to change and there’s that ramp up and it takes a long time to get everyone on board and then you’re wondering why are we not working as efficient like just stick to the basics, figure out what works for everyone and just go with it.

Josh: Yeah I mean like I’ve tried to make slack work and I just I’ve tried so many times and I just don’t like slack, it just doesn’t work for me

John: Exactly

Josh: And it’s so I just after a while I was like you know everybody’s using this, it’s the trendy thing but it wasn’t working for me so I dumped it same thing with Trello. I use Trello a ton trying to get used to it and get in the habit and I was just like this just doesn’t working for me, I’m gonna go back to Google Docs and actually a large part of how I manage my day is I have a Google Doc and every day I just have a list of everything I need to do that day and I prioritize it and say these are the things at the top and then every day I just copy that list up in that Google Doc so it’s really long like that’s my to-do list, like they’re all these fancy tools out there and I’ve just come back to basically a piece of paper with a bunch of stuff written on it.

John: And you know some of these tools that you’re using might work for you and some people like the old-school way of just writing on a sheet of paper and if it works and you are very efficient effective then be it right like it doesn’t mean you got to go out and buy the newest tools out there as an entrepreneur because you’re gonna get frustrated

Josh: Yeah I mean seriously if you had a piece of paper or a journal every day and you just wrote down one thing that you absolutely were going to get done that day and every day you got that one thing done, you would be an amazingly hyper productive human being.

John: Yes very true, so in terms of networking have you used do you still go to events to try to draw drama business and how have you changed your perspective in terms of when you first started doing networking events if you did versus how you do it now.

Josh: I was known as Mr. Networking in Utah when I lived there, everybody knew me I was at every single event it didn’t matter what it was, if it was related to business I was at that event and I had I collected business cards and when LinkedIn came out I was like Mr. LinkedIn from day one and over the years that’s changed a bit not because I mean I still love going to events and I love networking and I love meeting new people and I would probably still go to every event if I could, but now there are just so many events and my time is spent in other areas my genius own is not going to events and talking to people one-on-one, my genius own is creating content that’s what I’m really good at is writing content, creating lots of content very quickly and that’s where I can produce the most value to serve other people that’s where I could produce the most value to serve my business and so I focus a lot on producing content and then delivering that whether it’s writing or speaking. So now the only time I go to an event is if I’m speaking at the event and that’s my excuse, I love getting the speaking engagements because then I get to go to the event and then I have an excuse to be there and meet people in person and talk with people but if I’m not on the stage in an event it’s just hard for me to justify the time to go there, to that event.

John: I think early on I think a lot of entrepreneurs would love to be that you know speaker at the event but you have to start somewhere and you have to go out there meet new people learn more about how business works, get new clients and figure out what you’re an expert at, position yourself so that eventually you can be a keynote speaker or get on stage and feel comfortable doing that

Josh: Yeah it’s like being as, it’s like a sponge, you can’t get any water out of a sponge until water is put into this sponge and so you have to go to these events and soak up all this information so that then you have something that people can get out of you that’s worth getting and it’s the same with writing if you don’t read a lot it’s very hard to go write a good book unless you’ve done a lot of research and taken a lot of information in that then you can put out in a creative way that’s helpful. It’s the same with speaking and everything the more you listen, the more you absorb, the more you know what’s good and then when you go to do it yourself you’ve been trained and you know how to give a good talk because you’ve listened to a hundred of them, you know how to write a good book because you’ve read thousands of them, you know that’s how you get good at stuff to begin with is absorbing it to begin with.

John: And a lot of people are so caught up with just selling or going to the event for the purpose of getting new clients or whatnot. I always tell people like listen, try to connect with one or two people and build a strong relationship with them and really give people stuff, give them value, don’t ask for anything and this is some of the things that I’ve kind of learned and yeah I do some speaking locally and I go out and I have this podcast show. I try to give more than I receive and the more you do that and it’s much more rewarding as well and I feel like I’m having so much more fun doing this and people see that and they like you for that versus you pushing stuff at them.

Josh: Yeah I have a friend who’s an executive coach and his sales quote-unquote his sales process is that he goes out he gives free advice and he keeps giving people free very valuable advice until they come to him and say you’re giving me so much value here like how do I pay you I want more of this but I’ve got to pay you for this, this is too valuable that’s his sales technique and I love that kind of sales technique where I love content marketing, where you’re putting out content and giving it away for free and then people just find you and they say “ Hey I want to hire you.” that’s what I love because man I hate going out and selling and being pushy, that kind of selling just does not appeal to me and I want to serve people, I want to help people and really I would prefer to just give advice for free and then have people find me and say “ Hey I want more of that.”

John: You know it’s great because, you know being in sales and marketing all my life I’ve always learned in the corporate environment goal asks for the sale, go out there push people you know all that stuff but when you’re doing your own business and running your own agency it’s more like inbound is what you want, outbound is great but what’s the success rate? someone that’s actually eager to want to work with you, they’re gonna reach out to you and find you.

Josh: Yeah I mean everything works people can make outbound work and they can make it work well and inbound can work and it can work well. I think it comes down and a lot of case sometimes a certain business might work better with one than another, but for me it’s just all about what do you want to do, I do not want to spend my time going out there and pushing myself on people and getting in front of them and saying “Hey here’s what I do are you interested?” I would just mother much rather go out there and serve people and help people and have them come to me. That’s just my personal preference.

Josh: And yeah what works for you like you mentioned is stick with it, if it’s working keep doing it, if it’s not then try something different and not everyone our sales people or outgoing enough to go and ask for the sale, so inbound is always a great feeling to know that people are actually wanting your services.

Josh: Yeah this goes back to the whole genius own thing that whatever comes easily for you, naturally for you that’s focus on that, focus on your when you’re in business you focus on your strengths exactly it’s a waste of time for you to try to build up your weak areas where you have the choice. This comes up a lot like this whole idea of focusing on your strengths since like well wait a second but I have weaknesses that have to be fixed it’s like, well do they really have to be fixed or can you bring somebody else in to do that for you and whenever you have the choice you should bring somebody else to do it for you, when you don’t have the choice yes sometimes you have to focus on your weakness and build that up to the point where it’s not hurting you but wherever you have the choice you get rid of the weaknesses, let somebody else take that area on somebody who loves doing that stuff that you hate doing and just focus on the stuff that’s easy and that you love doing and that energizes. I’m still working this out in my own business.

John: Yeah as a business owner I get what you’re talking about because I’m not the strongest in social media and therefore I hired an associate media manager. I’m not strong at content writing, so I hire experts and they love it they’re very passionate in writing so I focus on my strengths which is running a business and dealing with customers. But I love that aspect of it, I’m not strong in accounting so I hire bookkeeper, an accountant right like self as a business owner once you start growing and you understand business a little bit more you’re able to do this but a lot of people just can’t afford it at the beginning

Josh: Yeah and it’s even smaller stuff than that I’m going through this right now where I have a partner that I’m bringing in to help me some mastermind groups that I have and we were talking about this a few weeks ago we realized, I mean I kind of knew this but we realized I hate being on the phone, I hate making phone calls, now I shouldn’t say it’s I don’t hate being on the phone I hate picking up the phone to make the phone call. It’s for some reason there’s some mental thing going on. It’s just hard for me to pick up the phone and make a phone call but I would write a hundred emails a day and they’ll be these long epic emails. I love typing and giving out advice through email well my friend who’s becoming my partner he loves being on the phone for him that’s like a vacation to be on the phone and talk with somebody so we’re like we need to get together here and work together because I have a business where somebody needs to be on the phone talking to our mastermind group members, but I hate doing it and somebody needs to do the email and my partner hates writing so we’re like this is great I love what you hate you love what I hate let’s get together and we can do some great things here.

John: Know, that’s awesome that’s great advice, so last couple of things I wanted to ask you so what drives you today well what is your main purpose or passion or has it kind of changed over the years because now I know you mentioned you have a family and your wife and you know that’s very important to you so what keeps you going.

Josh: It’s definitely changed over the years when I was starting my business in my young 20s I had this goal that I was gonna be a millionaire by the time I was 30 and some other tough stuff that I can’t remember anymore and I wasn’t a millionaire when I was there was almost a million dollars in debt but that was the opposite direction and I made a different goal but that’s not what drives me anymore and it took me a long time to learn about myself that I really don’t care that much about the money. I mean I hate being in debt but I don’t really care about making money in fact I had to bring on a partner and lock our salaries together in order to get paid, because I went to him and I’m like we’re gonna have the same salary it’s not a fairness thing it’s because if I don’t do this I will never pay myself, you will get paid everybody else will get paid and I will not pay myself unless we lock our salaries together because I know that you want to get paid and so if you get paid then I’ll get paid and then my wife’s happy and we can pay our bills and everything, otherwise I’ll just put everything back into business so I learned over time that I’m really not that motivated by money and what motivates me is learning it’s progress, it’s accomplishing goals but with my marketing agency MWI what I really love what really gets me more excited than anything else is seeing the people within the company, that are working in the company progress and grow it’s like it’s kind of like being a parent, when we we have Michelle who’s we just changed her title the VP of something but Michelle’s been with us for years and to see the progress she’s made as a human being, as an individual, as an employee, the technical skills she’s acquired, the leadership skills she’s acquired and to look at where she was when she started and where she is today, that’s what I look at I’m like that’s what gets me pumped about this business I want to provide that for more people, I want this to be a school or a training ground for people where they progress and they learn and they feel fulfilled about the work and they love what they’re doing, yeah that’s the thing that really motivates me with MWI more than doing great marketing work for the clients. I figure if I take care of my team my team can take care of the clients to make sure they get good stuff but for me what’s really exciting is taking care of the team. On my newer business ventures where I’m focused on influence and personal branding that’s more about how can I help other people change the world and so what gets me excited there is when I work with a new client and we go through my seven systems framework and I see the lights go on in their eyes and they say I understand who I am now and who my audience is and what I want to be doing with my content and then they go out there and they create this great content and they’re making a difference in other people’s lives, that gets me fulfilled to see that they’re doing good things my whole philosophy is that I think most people are good people and if I can help people become more influential, they’ll use that influence to make the world about place, that’s what gets me excited.

John: Know that’s a great you know, you mentioned so many great things there because I you know I get what you’re talking about because when an employee is passionate they over deliver and your clients are the end result of it, everything is a ripple effect but you gotta treat your people right, take care of them and even myself we do an annual trip every year with the entire team and I really just get to know everyone on a personal level and really figure out what their goals and aspirations are and I try to achieve that for them or work together to get that going and I learned this in corporate actually but from that I kind of implemented it for myself in this company and it’s been great because right now the loyalty of all my employees, I think we’re at like 98% no one leaves the company and that’s the big thing too like if you train them right you teach them well and you treat them right and they like what they see and they’re growing themselves, they’re passionate, they will stick loyal to you.

Josh: Yeah and what I love too is that we do have people who come and go and we’ll have interns and they’re there for six months and they’re gone or we’ll have somebody who’s there for a year and then they move or something happens and they have to leave and sometimes people get better job offers and I always tell my team “Do what’s right for you, this is all about you and your family, whatever is best for you will end up being best for our business too.” so make your decisions based around what’s best for you personally and everything will work out for us, don’t worry about us and what I love is that we have great relationships with the vast majority of people who have worked at our company and left and there are people who left 12 years ago that I’m still friends with and we keep in touch and we talk. I have people who have worked multiple times in my business they’ve left and then they’ve come back and they’ve left. I mean it’s it’s great and I love for me it’s just all about their progression, if they’re progressing and then they find that there’s an opportunity out there that helps them to progress faster than what we can provide, great go take that opportunity and if someday you decide you want to come back to them then great let’s talk about that and for me it’s just we’re all friends, we’re all trying to progress, we all have different goals and if my business can be one of those stepping stones to help them reach a larger goal later on, great come and work with us for two years add value and then we’ll wish you well when you graduate you go on to that next step.

John: Know that’s great and you know everything you’re talking about is great for morale as well. Having your core values consistent and stick with it and making sure everyone acknowledges it throughout the course of their tenure. So aside from business I know you mentioned this earlier on, life is all about other things, family, your health, community potentially giving back making impact right and right now it’s your employees making sure they’re set and what I’m finding is I don’t really care about you know my personal goals will eventually get there but other people if I’m able to help others get to where they want to be it feels so much better. So what are some of the pillars that really mold you today. Is it the family pillar that is really strong and also the relationships and health because it seems like now you’re much healthier and you’re much more you know energized.

Josh: Yeah those are all these things are super important family is obviously super important. Fitness or health is super important but really for me all of this has a spiritual base it all goes back to my religions, my belief about God and why we’re here on earth, where we came from, why we’re here, where do we go after we die, these are the things that really feel me because I believe that we do live after we die and that there are eternal consequences for things that we do here and that the impact, the influence that we have here can last forever and so for me it’s really about what is, what does God want me to do? What’s my mission?

what’s my calling in life and how can I serve people the best and maybe it’s maybe God wants me to just focus on my family and bring home a paycheck and be a great dad and a great husband, perfect I could be thrilled with that. That would actually be really relaxing and really nice some days to just have to focus on that. But then there are other days where I feel like I’m supposed to do something bigger and not I’m not saying bigger like more important than family but what I mean is just other things, there are other things that I think God wants me to do, to serve outside of my family as well and so but family comes first, if I can’t take care of my family then I certainly can’t take care of anything else or at least I shouldn’t and so it’s I need to take care of myself first, I need to take care of my family second and then it’s what else does God want me to do in the world does what where can I make the bigger impact.

John: That was great, hopefully you had fun.

Josh: I love doing this I love talking and just I love learning so yeah I mean this is great because frankly I don’t get out much, I’m usually here in my home office I’m typing away and so doing these podcasts and interviews is great because I get to meet new people and talk to people and get their input on things

John: And that’s the reason I started like this whole last month and this month has been so much fun just meeting new people that I would never have met and again I can say this podcast or whatever but the thing about this is I get to meet new people that are like-minded and it’s very difficult to speak and build a relationship with people that all over the world and just shoot the or whatever you know just get to know people right on a more intimate or personal level because you can’t, you know people here in Toronto are just busy people like big city mentality. it’s hard to get people’s time.

Josh: Yeah it’s funny, I mean I’m here in Boston which is a big city and they’re all these people here in Boston that I’m like, I should be reaching out to these people and meeting with all these people and it’s just hard to get out and connect with people sometimes.

John: Yeah well you used to be a super networker right but it’s like what do you enjoy doing now, writing. It seems like you kind of hit your spot in terms of I like doing this stick with it.

Josh: Yeah and also it’s just I’m having so much more fun with my family now.

John: How old are your kids?

Josh: My kids are 14, 11 and 9 and it’s just when things were bad in the business it was just my wife and myself, we didn’t have kids for a while after we got married. Probably because I was never around and so it was just me and my wife and at that time I was just a hundred percent focused on business, it’s like I could only focus on that and I just I was in a weird place like just not seeing things clearly like what mattered and once I got that sorted out then we adopted our first daughter and then we had a biologic kid and then we just adopted another daughter from China and it’s like it’s really I mean it’s developed over the years that I mean I don’t know maybe I’m just a bad dad but it’s like I have so much fun in the business and it’s just so easy for me to focus on it that when I was younger and earlier on as a dad I often kind of felt that family was inconveniencing things, it was getting in the way of the business and I knew that that was a bad way to think about things but it was just hard to not think that way, you know as once I started setting up boundaries insane things like I get off work at 5:00 it doesn’t matter what’s going on I end to work at 5:00 well then that freed me up because then from 5:00 on it was like I don’t have to think about business because it’s not like I can just run back in the office and work because I am committed to not working anymore and so then there was space to actually enjoy being part of the family. Well now it’s kind of turned around the other way where I kind of feel like I don’t want to go back to work, like I really enjoy doing family stuff so we were just adopting my daughter in China and I basically took a month off I mean I did some work here and there and some communication but it was like 95% family for a whole month and 5% work and it’s kind of hard coming back it was kind of like yeah and I could get used to this you know.

John: You retire like at what, 40 or something?

Josh: Yeah and it’s and this since we moved to Boston about a year ago I’ve been building a treehouse in the back with my daughter and I’m like I get out there and I’m hammering boards into a tree and I’m like, I kind of just want to do this, like I could just do this for the next month and be happy just building this treehouse with my daughter here you know and my son is getting into skateboarding and I’m a skateboarder so I’m like, this is my excuse to go skateboarding like I don’t want to work anymore and I wanna go skateboarding with my son but it wasn’t that fun by myself anymore.

John: Other things that you know you grew up wanting to do and now you’re doing it I know that’s like you’re a kid again but this is life, like you know this is exactly what I’m all about right like just enjoy the moment, enjoy people like this weekend with Thanksgiving for us right here in Toronto and all three days was busy, with a lot of cousins and you know like my my son’s kids you know family cousins and stuff so it was so chaotic but I enjoyed it. like it was just go go go I just loved it, this is what life is about right

Josh: Yeah and I feel like I’m discovering this like the hard way,like I really had to adjust and like learn to enjoy it and yet the more I get into it the more I’m just like man work like seriously like do I really want to work anymore or should I just like try to retire and just.

John: But you have to have a goal right so obviously if you finances are taken care of, then you can think about what really is your objective like a purpose really figured out, yeah I’d love to think about adoption too because I might be looking at that myself.

Josh: Yeah it’s I mean it’s the best thing that ever happened to us. We were married for eight and a half years we had a couple of miscarriages and fertility issues and finally one day I was just like we need to take matters into our own hands here and so I drove over to an adoption agency and I called my wife and I’m like I’m sitting in the parking lot do you want me to go in and get some paperwork and start the adoption process and she’s like, alright yeah I’ve just been waiting for you so we adopted our first daughter and that went just beautifully well almost like too perfect, it’s like we we had that first adoption we were like it will never be this way again if we ever adopt again it’s never gonna go this smoothly, because this was like too perfect you know and so that was an incredible experience and then everybody was like Oh once you adopt then you’ll get pregnant. We’re like no it doesn’t really work that way like we have fertility issues like adoption does not cure fertility issues and then we adopted in the lankey or later we got pregnant we’re like okay maybe it does fix fertility issues it’s like I don’t know so then we had our son and then a couple years later we were like we started feeling like okay we where’s our next child coming from and we weren’t getting pregnant again and so we started feeling like there’s somebody out there that we need to adopt and we started looking into it and we felt like we were going to adopt an older child and we started feeling like she’s in China and then that turned into, when we just go live over there and so that’s why we went to Asia we lived in Asia for six years trying to learn food, language, culture and hoping that we would find her somehow and then we never found her and then we felt like maybe we need to go back to the US and so we came back to the US and boom we found her right after we came back to the U.S and so then we went back to China pick her up and then we just brought her home.

John: That’s amazing, so you lived it for six years running your business agency there too

Josh: Yeah so we’re in Hong Kong for about three and a half years and then we were in China for a little over two years.

John: That’s amazing, I mean that travel and just life experience that’s what life is about. People are so, they don’t get out much right and that’s the problem right.

Josh: Yeah it was amazing and now we’re looking at the protests in Hong Kong and I’m like man we lived there, like that’s our home we know them like all, we now these people, It’s crazy to see what’s going on now and just and we have our business we have an office over there with ten people and I’m like talking to these people I’m like are you okay? Are you safe? It’s like yeah I know the news makes it seem crazy and also we lived in China so we have friends in China and it’s like we’re seeing all this stuff with like the NBA in the u.s. is like getting a lot of heat right now and people are like why is the NBA doing this and I’m like I kind of get it from the Chinese perspective, I get where the Chinese people are coming from, where their government is coming from, I get why the NBA is reacting this way not to say I sympathize with yeah any one of these points but like I understand where everybody’s coming from, in the difficult situation that everybody’s in but yeah it was an amazing experience to be over there and just get educated about the world and what’s going on geopolitically and when they talk about the weigert’s and the concentration camps in China I’m like yeah like that was a thing that we heard about and I know where that is. I’ve been there but it’s like I know where that is and I know it’s crazy and like we saw weigert’s around and stuff so it’s like I know who these people are and anyway it’s just kind of fascinating to see what’s going on over there and to think we were there, like that was our home for six years over where all that stuff’s going on right now.

John: You have the ability to write and that’s the best thing about having your own business thing about having your own business right that luxury and flexibility. Not a lot of people can do that.

Josh: Yeah and the technology, I mean the internet like we’re over there we’re living in China where like, we couldn’t have done this before the internet, like there’s no way we could have done this before the internet and yet because of the internet it’s easy. It’s not that

John: You have to do a VPN because google wasn’t around so you have to do.

Josh: Yeah anybody who’s a foreigner in China is on a VPN plus a lot of Chinese people yeah we had to do a VPN and it was so slow, it was like going back to dial-up, I felt like I was on a 56k modems if anybody knows what that is anymore but it was like, it was so slow and it was annoying and two years was kind of enough, it was like yeah so ready to be back in the US and have a high speed internet

John: Did you learn the language were you there like it was

Josh: A little bit I’m not fluent by any means but I can get by in a restaurant or a taxi or

John: Mandarin and Cantonese?

Josh: Oh just Mandarin I didn’t learn that much Cantonese, my wife did but I I didn’t and then when we went to China though I was like I’ve got to learn some Mandarin I don’t want to leave here not knowing how to say anything.

John: That’s awesome, I mean this is what I love hearing man just life, just a journey because you know business comes and goes and it’s only money. Me? I love the people that actually cameras and I’m making something out of it right like that’s what this is what I love about the podcasts, meeting interesting people that you would never get to meet.

Josh: The funny thing too about these podcasts is this happens to me all the time that we end the recording and then like the best stuff comes out after the recording yeah so I’m like you know if you want to use any of this or just have it all on there like that’s fine with me you can just tell people like hey we kept on talking afterwards and then here’s that part because it always happens and sometimes when I was doing my podcast I would cut it off and then we’d start chatting I’m like dang it I wish I was still recording this this is like way better than what we actually recorded.

John: That’s true so well, I know you’re busy I’m gonna let you do your thing so I know we talked about a lot of various topics but how do you listeners get a hold of you in your business.

Josh: if my personal website joshjsteimle.com I’m also on LinkedIn, my business is MWI that’s one of my businesses. I’ve got too many businesses but that’s the big one so but my personal website joshjsteimle.com is the main place people can get in touch with me.

John: Awesome well thanks a lot for giving so much valuable insight and tips for entrepreneurs and I really appreciate you being on a guest on our show, I want to thank you again Josh and if you’re ever in Toronto hit me up we’ll get together, I’ll show you around

Josh: Awesome

John: If you’re up North.

Josh: Thanks great thank you so much John